Diary of a B+ Grade Polymath (tcpip) wrote in linux,
Diary of a B+ Grade Polymath
tcpip
linux

A full and frank discussion topic: systemd

I love this...



But more seriously, this author has some sensible things to say.

So community? What are your thoughts on systemd?

PS: Livejournal made me your new community moderator as the last moderators ended up MIA. This will be a spam-free community.
Tags: moderation, systemd
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I don't have thoughts on systemd, but welcome as mod. :]
Thank you kindly; I shall endeavour to ensure the continued survival and perhaps a new burst of growth in the community.

Because, sweet Jesus, it's better than Facebook.
I think alot of people are afraid of systemd, but to me it still seems better than the system v elaborate set of shell scripts. That set up was not efficient or easy to understand. But people who have to maintain a large set of machines don't like change for changes sake, anyway, and prefer that way to a way that threatens the established order.

I like the fast startup of ubuntu with upstart compared to the old way but that will be abandoned for systemd soon. I wonder if there is a great difference from a user point of view.

I don't really like gnome depending on systemd so heavily though, it will make it less portable to other unix systems that aren't linux, but gnome seems to be making alot of mistakes anyway. At least that's not the only desktop environment out there.

It's kind of like wayland vs xorg, in the end I think the environment will be the same, basically what you make of it, but the process names will be different and life goes on.

Too much FUD about systemd in my opinion.
Yes, the FUD issue is a little overboard, but the people at boycott systemd have, to a large extent, avoided that and concentrated on some real issues. The journal files are enough to make me a little shy about it.

In a sense I'm glad that it has raised its head as it has people thinking hard about this issue. I wonder if the people who are anti-systemd are thinking seriously about an alternative - things like both uselessd are amusing and well-intentioned, but I don't think it's really meant as a widespread alternative.

(All this said, I'm using Slackware on the desktop so poking around the startup scripts is something I like to do)
I have read that you can still have text log files as well as the binary ones, that is to be debian's default configuration if I understand correctly.

Yes, my understanding is that forwarding journal logs to syslog can be done via enabling ForwardToSyslog=yes in /etc/systemd/journald.conf.

Didn't know about the Debian decision; I'll investigate that further.

Debian!

https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2014/11/msg00638.html


I'm sorry that you've been misled about this. systemd logs as plain text
by default in Debian. In fact, the plain text logs are much better than
what we get from sysvinit, since they include stdout and stderr of
daemons.


Interesting read, thanks for sharing. And welcome!
Thank you!
It's alive! And not spam!

On systemd, I don't have much of an expert opinion. I've used Linux on the desktop for nearly a decade and server for a few years and never much needed to mess with init scripts, or found boot time unreasonable. But systemd's a topic I've been watching closely and will continue to, especially as it's now in Debian, which has been my distro of choice for desktop and server for a while now.

To its critics' points, it does seem to be gobbling up projects quickly and getting adopted without a lot of consideration. Just to keep my options open, I've been trying to become more comfortable with Slackware, and should probably try out a BSD or two soon.
To give it some due, I think that systemd (or moreso, something like it) will be very good for mobile devices where an extra few seconds of boot time does seem to be important for those who want instant gratification.
Hmm, I would guess that most phones probably get rebooted less frequently than most computers. While I know a lot of people just keep their computers on all the time or "sleep" them when not in use, I'd think that installing security updates on most operating systems would enforce regular reboots.

But there's definitely room to speed up boot time on phones, if the will is there.
I do user-space programming, so cannot comment from a systems point of view.

But, in general, I do not want to ever sacrifice the *nix philosopy, and historical use of human-readable and human-writeable scripts and commands, each doing a single task, that are then chained together.

Last thought on it, is the concept of Trust. I trust Debian. I trust them technically as well as politically. I run Debian on my home systems. So, ...I will Trust that the majority of votes of the Debian crew will end up being the Right Thing To Do, in the long run, for political/technical issues like systemd for all of 'us' that participate and use Debian.
Thanks for taking over as moderator and deleting spam.

As for systemd, I'm pretty much in agreement with Ignorant Guru (http://igurublog.wordpress.com/ ) that it's a bad thing, a bloated symptom of corporate takeover of Linux and a Windowsification attempt to eliminate the possibility of running a lean minimalist Linux due to some entrenched "Year of the Desktop" notion that we should all be running Gnome 3 etc. Plus it's a large-surface-area amorphous mass of new security risks which I don't want on my box. I trust neither their motives nor their security competence. My Debian sid with LXDE has so far managed to avoid systemd; if that becomes impossible in the future, I'll be jumping ship.